Simple & Accurate "2 Clicks" Bitcoin Mining Calculator ...
MicroBitcoin (MBTC) Mining Calculator & Information ...
Bitcoin Gold (BTG) Mining Profitability Calculator - for ...
Bitcoin Mining Calculator CoinWarz
I made an upgraded calculator for Hashflare, with reinvestments and difficulty increase!
Final EDIT: I have deactivated the links, too many people asking to edit. I recommend to everyone: buy Bitcoin, ETH or altcoins and hold them. As for me, I'm all in on RaiBlocks -> /RaiBlocks EDIT 1: Changed to consider an optional BTC price increase EDIT 2: Changed to consider mining fees, thanks for the suggestions EDIT 3: Optimize number of days using Goal Seek EDIT 4: Fixed bug in BTC price increase ( thanks madmax_br5 ) - you will now see bigger profits in the chart as it is using the projected increased value. EDIT 5: Added comparison with buying BTC now and selling later. 3-4x more in my case. EDIT 6: Overhaul after WandringAnteater 's suggestions. He also gave a more in depth explanation of the inputs and outputs here EDIT 7: Changed to reinvest from the payout and not balance; fallback to balance if payout < 0.01 TH/s equivalent. Thanks to u/erikkubica for reporting the bug. I saw many calculators around the sub (thanks for those by the way!), but they didn't consider the increases in difficulty, making for huge profits in the end. This one considers a constant increase in difficulty, compounded (specify the amount and period of increase). Reinvestment is also considered, you can specify the percentage and how long you wish to reinvest. There are still many things that are unpredictable, but this at least can give us a more conservative view on potential profits (no longer 10x, but about 3x in my case - at current BTC price). Maybe someone smarter than me can take this calculator and create automatic optimization on the reinvestment percentage and time. As of now you have to insert your values and wait about 5 seconds to re-calc. Any criticism is appreciated!
What is dev team going do about Dogecoin's dangerously low hashrate?
First of all, let me apologize in advance if anything I say offends people or if I am not very nice. I am stating my opinions and don't like to sugar coat things. So it might be a bit jarring when compared to typical shibes you see around here. :) The last time I talked to the Dogecoin dev team, they were still trying to figure out what they wanted to do. And Jackson said that he would wait for 2 more halvings before considering merged mining. Well it's been 2 halvings, and the Dogecoin hashrate has behaved pretty much as I expected: LTC/DOGE hashrate comparison When I did my merged mining AMA, the dogecoin hashrate was about 1/2 of litecoin's hashrate. Today, the hashrate is 1/15 of litecoin's. Pretty much all the ASIC hashrate went to Litecoin, which I warned would happen. The Dogecoin's network security is in danger of being attacked. The top 3 Litecoin pools can easily pull off a 51% attack on the Dogecoin network. In a few weeks, the top 6 Litecoin pools can easily do it. A Scrypt ASIC farm can decide that it wants to have some fun. The Dogecoin network hashrate is about 45 ghash/s. So as an example, a 50 ghash/s farm can easily 51% it. Here's the earning ability of 50 ghash/s: litecoin mining calculator. It makes about $20500 per day. Let's say it takes about 30 minutes to pull off this attack... that's 30 Dogecoin confirmations. The attacker loses about $430 if he stops mining Litecoin for an hour. They could try to attack one of the top Dogecoin exchanges and try to steal 0.7 bitcoins to make it worth their time. Or they can double spend a lifetime subscription to Hustler.com, which is worth about $500. Or maybe they just don't like Dogecoin. And it only costs them $430! Dogecoin's network security is worth only $430. So what can you do? Honestly, I'm not sure merged mining is a viable option anymore, as it is becoming less and less viable with each passing day. Merged mining was the best option in April, when I first proposed it. At that time, if merged mining was implemented, almost every single Litecoin and Dogecoin pool will switch to do merged mining right away, because adding merged mining of Dogecoin would increase their mining output by 50%! Today, adding merged mining will only increase earnings by 6%. It's hard to say how many pools will switch. Some might think it's not worth their time. So it would take a big PR push to make this work. You're now left with a hard choice:
Don't do anything and hope
Do merged mining and try to convince all the pools to do it
Switch to another algorithm, and hope you can compete better against other GPU mined coins
Switch to proof of stake, and accept all the problems that come with that.
I've been working on a bot for crypto subs like /r/bitcoin for a few days now. Say hello to crypto_bot!
Hey guys, I've been working on crypto_bot for some time now. It provides a bunch of features that I hope will enhance your experience on /bitcoin (and any other subreddit). You can call it by mentioning it in a comment. I started working on this a few days ago. I'm constantly adding new features and will update this post when I do, but if you're interested I'll post all updates and some tips at /crypto_bot. Please either comment here, message me, or post there if you'd like to report a bug, request a feature, or offer feedback. There's also one hidden command :) You can call multiple commands in one comment. Here's a description of the commands you can use:
Responds with the USD price of one bitcoin from an average of six of the top bitcoin exchanges (BTC-E, Bitstamp, Bitfinex, Coinbase, Kraken, Cryptsy).
Responds with the USD price of one bitcoin at seven exchanges (all of the ones listed above, plus LocalBitcoins). Also lists the average at the bottom.
Responds with the USD price of one bitcoin from [exchange] (any of the seven listed above).
Responds with the USD price of one litecoin, or the price of 1 doge and 1,000 doge.
crypto_bot litecoin|ltc [exchange]
Responds with the USD price of one litecoin from BTC-E, Bitfinex, Kraken, or Cryptsy.
Responds with the price of one bitcoin in the specified currency. Available currencies (symbols): JPY, CNY, SGD, HKD, CAD, NZD, AUD, CLP, GBP, DKK, SEK, ISK, CHF, BRL, EUR, RUB, PLN, THB, KRW, TWD.
crypto_bot [about|info] [arg]
Responds with a short description about [arg], as well as a link to an external site (Wikipedia, bitcoin.it, and some others) for more information. You can list multiple arguments and get a description for each. Available arguments: bitcoin, block chain, transaction, address, genesis, satoshi, mining, confirmation, coinbase, gox, cold wallet, hot wallet.
Responds with calculations and information about how a miner would do with the above data (mining calculator). The only required field is mining speed. Order of the arguments does not matter. Everything other than hashrate defaults to the following if not given: w (watts): 0, kwh ($kilowatt cost/hour): 0, difficulty: current network difficulty, hc$ (hardware cost): $0, $: current bitcoin price in usd (according to Coinbase), % (pool fee): 0. The calculator does not account for nor allow for input of the increase/decrease of difficulty over time, though I may add this feature soon. Working hashing speeds: h/s, kh/s, mh/s, gh/s, th/s, ph/s. Example usage: "crypto_bot calc 30th/s 10w .12kwh hc$55 1.5%" (to make it easier to remember, th/s can also be inputted as ths). This calls the bot with a hashrate of 30 th/s, electricity usage of 10w, a cost of $.12 kWh, a hardware cost of $55, and a pool fee of 1.5%.
crypto_bot number of btc <$amount to convert> [bp$bitcoin price]
Responds with the number of bitcoins you could buy with <$amount to convert>. If the comment specifies a [bp$bitcoin price], it calculates it with that exchange rate. Otherwise, it uses the rate from Coinbase. Example usage: "crypto_bot $419.29 bp$180.32" This calculates how many bitcoins you can buy if you have $419.29 and the bitcoin exchange rate is $180.32.
Signs a message in the bitcoin block chain in a transaction using OP_RETURN. The message must be less than 40 characters. Example usage: "SignMessage! "Post messages in the block chain!"" I hope you find this bot useful! Again, if you have any questions or comments, please either comment on this post, message me, or post on /crypto_bot. Update 1 (June 24, 2015, 17:35): The bot now responds with information if you post a link to a block, transaction, or address on Blockchain.info in a comment, even if you don't call it. For example, if I wrote "https://blockchain.info/block/0000000000000000126448be07fb1f82af19fbbf07dd7e07ebcd08d42c2660cb" in a comment, it would respond with information about block #362,377. Update 2 (July 10, 2015, 1:59): The bot now has two additional commands: "unconfirmed transactions" (or "unconfirmed tx") and "explain transaction delay" (or "explain tx delay"). The first command responds with the number of unconfirmed transactions, and the second explains why transactions might take extra time to confirm. Update 3 (August 24, 2015, 1:34): The bot now responds in a better way than before when transaction ids or addresses are posted. Before, it only responded when the transaction id or address was used in a link to Blockchain.info. Now the bot will respond whenever a transaction id or address is posted at all; a link to Blockchain.info is no longer necessary. Update 4 (August 27, 2015, 3:00): The bot can now sign messages in the Bitcoin block chain using OP_RETURN.
What is the max supply of bitcoin private? There are like 16m bitcoin and 3m zcl in circulation.. So that's 2m bctp left to mine if it has 21m max supply right? I don't see the fees being able to cover the cost of mining the blocks in only a few years... So what's happening with mining and max supply and how will the chain continue to be profitable once the last btcp is mined. Edit the whitepaper says it will have 20.4m of 21m mined... So it will be the least profitable coin to mine in the history of coins? Edit 2. Entering some basic information into a zec Calc shows that for a 1080ti. Bctp would be required to be worth over $100,000 to make only 2.70$ a day based on the difficulty that zec has. The bctp is going to stall out in hashpower on release no question.
New people please read this. [upvote for visibility please]
I am seeing too many new people come and and getting confused. Litecoin wiki isn't the greatest when it comes to summing up things so I will try to do things as best as I can. I will attempt to explain from what I have learned and answer some questions. Hopefully people smarter than me will also chime in. I will keep this post updated as much as I can. Preface Litecoin is a type to electronic currency. It is just like Bitcoin but it there are differences. Difference explained here. If you are starting to mine now chances are that you have missed the Bitcoin mining train. If you really want your time and processing power to not go to waste you should mine LTC because the access to BTC from there is much easier. Mining. What is it? Let's get this straight. When making any financial commitment to this be prepared to do it with "throw away" money. Mining is all about the hashrate and is measured in KH/s (KiloHash/sec). Unlike the powerful ASICs (Application Specific Integrated Circuit) that are used to mine bitcoins using hashrates in the GH/s and even TH/s, litecoin mining has only been able to achieve at the very best MH/s. I think the highest I've seen is 130 MH/s so far. Which leads us to our next section. Mining Hardware While CPU mining is still a thing it is not as powerful as GPU mining. Your laptop might be able to get 1 a month. However, I encourage you to consult this list first. List of hardware comparison You will find the highest of processors can maybe pull 100 KH/s and if we put this into a litecoin mining calculator it doesn't give us much. Another reason why you don't want to mine with your CPU is pretty simple. You are going to destroy it. So this leaves us with GPUs. Over the past few months (and years) the HD 7950 has been the favourite because it drains less power and has a pretty good hashrate. But recently the introduction of the R9 290 (not the x) has changed the game a bit. People are getting 850 KH/s - 900 KH/s with that card. It's crazy. Should I mine? Honestly given the current difficulty you can make a solid rig for about $1100 with a hashrate of 1700 KH/s which would give you your investment back in about a month and a half. I am sure people out there can create something for much cheaper. Here is a good example of a setup as suggested by dystopiats PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.
Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-11-29 00:52 EST-0500
Estimated Hashrate (with GPU overclocking) : 1900 KH/s Hardware Fundamentals CPU - Do you need a powerful CPU? No but make sure it is a decent one. AMD CPUs are cheap to buy right now with tons of power. Feel free to use a Sempron or Celeron depending on what Motherboard you go with. RAM - Try to get at least 4 GB so as to not run into any trouble. Memory is cheap these days. I am saying 4 GB only because of Windoze. If you are plan to run this on Linux you can even get away with less memory. HDD Any good ol 7200 RPM hard drive will do. Make sure it is appropriate. No point in buying a 1TB hard drive. Since, this is a newbie's guide I assumed most won't know how to run linux, but incase you do you can get a USB flash drive and run linux from it thus removing the need for hard drive all toghether. (thanks dystopiats) GPU - Consult the list of hardware of hardware I posted above. Make sure you consider the KH/s/W ratio. To me the 290 is the best option but you can skimp down to 7950 if you like. PSU - THIS IS BLOODY IMPORTANT. Most modern GPUs are power hungry so please make sure you are well within the limits of your power consumption. MOTHERBOARD - Ok, so a pretty popular board right now is Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 and the ASRock 970 Extreme4. Some people are even going for Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5 and even the mighty Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD7 because it has more PCI-E slots. 6 to be exact. However you may not need that much. With risers you can get more shoved into less. PCI-E RISERS - These are called risers. They come in x16 to x16 and x1 to x16 connections. Here is the general rule of thumb. This is very important. Always get a POWERED riser otherwise you will burn a hole in your MoBo. A powered rise as a molex connector so that additional power from PSU can be supplied. When it comes to hardware I've provided the most basic knowledge you need. Also, take a look at cryptobader's website. This is very helpful. Please visit the mining section of Litecoin Forums and the litecoinmining subreddit for more indepth info. Mining Software Now that you have assembled your hardware now you need to get into a pool. But before you do that you need a mining software. There are many different ones but the one that is most popular is cgminer. Download it and make sure you read the README. It is a very robust piece of software. Please read this if you want to know more. (thanks BalzOnYer4Head) Mining Pools Now that your hardware and software is ready. I know nothing about solo mining other than the fact that you have to be very lucky and respectable amount of hashing power to decrypt a block. So it is better to join pools. I have been pool hopping for a bit and really liked give-me-coin previously known to the community as give-me-ltc. They have a nice mobile app and 0% pool fees. This is really a personal preference. Take a look at this list and try some yourself. How do I connect to a pool? Most pools will give you a tutorial on how to but the basics are as follows:
Signup for a pool
Create a worker for your account. Usually one worker per rig (Yes people have multiple rigs) is generally a good idea.
Create a .run file. Open up notepad and type cgminer.exe -o (address_to_the_miningpool:port_number) -u (yourusername.workername) -p (your_worker_password_if_you_made_one). Then File>Save As>runcgminer.run (Make sure the drop down is set to "All Files" and .txt document.) and save in the same folder as cgminer. That's it.
Double click on runcgminer.run (or whatever you named it) and have fun mining.
Mining Profitability This game is not easy. If it was, practically everyone would be doing it. This is strictly a numbers game and there are calculations available that can help you determine your risk on your investments. 4 variables you need to consider when you are starting to mine: Hardware cost: The cost of your physical hardware to run this whole operation. Power: Measured in $/KwH is also known as the operating cost. Difficulty rate: To put it in layman's terms the increase in difficulty is inversely proportional to amount of coin you can mine. The harder the difficulty the harder it is to mine coin. Right now difficulty is rising at about 18% per 3 days. This can and will change since all you miners are soon going to jump on the band wagon. Your sanity: I am not going to tell you to keep calm and chive on because quiet frankly that is stupid. What I will tell you not to get too carried away. You will pull you hair out. Seriously. Next thing you will need is a simple tool. A mining profitability calculator. I have two favourite ones. coinwarz I like this one cause it is simple. The fields are self explanatory. Try it. bitcoinwisdom I like this one because it is a more real life scenario calculator and more complicated one (not really). It also takes increasing difficulty into account. Please note: This is the absolute basic info you need. If you have more questions feel free to ask and or google it! More Below.
Any mining profitability calculator that lets you see past returns starting from specific past dates?
Most profitability calculators either assume current difficulty stays the same (we all know it doesn't) or estimates difficulty increase. What I want is a calculator that let's me set the start date as a date in the past, and shows me actual would-have-been returns based on actual difficulty from then till now? Why? Because I know an s9 would have been "profitable" 6, 12, 18 months ago, but much of that profit would have been from BTC price increase, and simply buying bitcoin 6-18 months ago would have been a great investment too. I want to compare profitability of mining and hodling vs same budget on buying coin and hodling, from various points in time. Alternatively, if no such web calc exists, if the math isn't too complicated I guess I could make one in spreadsheet form.
I just bought my first ASIC's, did I make a bad investment
I bought 2 brand New s9i's with psu's For 1600$ And I also Will build a sound Box And I need a router that supports my mobile broadband, this Will prob. Cost another 200$. So the calculating speed is going to be avarage 28TH. How long Will it take to get my money Back when I don't have any electricity Costs. Im just bit concerned because my friend told me that according to BitcoinWisdom site my profits Will cut half every month And that I Will only be making the amount what Bitcoin profitability calc. For the first month. So on few months after mining im making just a fraction of the profit And never going to be able to get the ROI? Can somebody help me and tell me a simple answer how this difficulty affects my New investment.
bit_by_bit's mining-cost analysis is wrong - here's mine
bit_by_bit publishes a daily mining-cost-per-coin watch. Though his work is thorough and commendable, it is unfortunately incorrect, and his conclusions naive. I'm sure he has misled people on this board, so I'm here to set the record straight. Roughly using bit_by_bit's assumptions:
difficulty increase is (probably) impossible to predict
I'm 100% sure your miner would not arrive and be switched on today
Given those two huge, highly variable (and unpredictable) factors, trying to work out a cost-per-coin is ... more-or-less impossible. It's simply enough to assume that mining is extremely unprofitable at the moment and (probably) a very poor investment. Here are some examples of variability:
Cointerra TerraMiner IV
cost per coin
0% difficulty increase
20% difficulty increase
15% difficulty, but starting at 30bn difficulty
How are these numbers so different from bit_by_bits?
His calculations do not factor in an exponential difficulty increase. Instead, he says (in his maths) : "if the bitcoin network were composed of the miners here, and no extra miners are added/removed (i.e. difficulty remains the same) what would those miners (on average) achieve as a cost per coin over six months."
The problem with these numbers is
The percentage of miners he uses to compose the network is unknowable, and as you see above, miner performance varies greatly. I'm quite sure that huge operations custom manufacture their machines and never sell them. Their performance is unknown. (an unknowable unknown)
The makeup of the mining network in the future is unknowable, and difficulty will undoubtedly increase, but we can't know by how much. It has previously plateaued. Will it do the same? nobody knows.
They assume the very latest miners, shipped immediately. Historically, new miners are not shipped on time. It's been suggested that the manufacturers keep them and do highly profitable day-zero mining with them.
Also, to suggest that it is possible to predict market movements (and depth) is naive as it asserts that demand is constant, and that supply is the major, or key, factor. This is highly unlikely to be the case.
Let's talk about mining's effect on bitcoin price or, first should we talk about the effect of the price of bitcoin on the mining industry?
The two are intimately linked chicken-and-egg in a feedback loop. For a manufacturer to decide to make a rig, they need to design chips, get industry contacts, produce things (in china), make sure they work, then ship. They also need to get orders and decide if they are able to get the whole project in time for market. These projects are multi-month/year, and I've heard success is largely decided by who you know in china (china's pretty busy already). There is some kind of lag. Investors also pre-order, and must take a wild guess at future conditions with no guarantee whatsoever. At times like now, where mining is so unprofitable, which miners are actually selling coins (at a loss)? Large operations have large overheads, but to sell now, when the price might rise by 10x again would be idiotic. So, really this "supply" aspect of the supply-demand equation is very difficult to get a decent hold on, though I would love somebody to attempt it as a PHD. The blockchain should provide some answers. The other side of it (what miners will be produced) is also difficult to know. It could be that right now (with an unprofitable industry, and miners actually being quite close to desktop PC chip-size - i.e. as fast as humans can make them) no miners are in the pipe-line. This could (in crazy theory) lead to a zero difficulty increase for the lucky new owners of the above rigs. In that case, bit_by_bit's numbers would be spot on. Unfortunately, it's absolutely unknowable.
So... why do people buy miners now?
Quite simply, getting your head around an exponential anything is hard. The exponential difficulty increase is a motherfucker. But it's good for bitcoin (it protects our network from meddlers). Also, you could gamble that mining difficulty has to slow down... surely...
In my experience, looking at price charts is far more informative about future market movements. But, whilst I've got the microphone, I would remind newbies not to trade their coins.
$0.15 (varies quite a bit from country-to country, like 0.7 canada to 0.2 UK?)
price per BTC
I got these numbers off bit_by_bit. I don't care about the details. My argument is that it's not an answerable question. Result:
2252/600 = 3.75 BTC
7446/3.75 = $1985
Please, if I've made a mistake, let me know and I'll send bit_by_bit some flowers.
"Why are you just posting stuff directly against another user: that's not cool"
Well, it's whatever motivates you eh? I just go wound up by our discussions. But, I'm quite sure there are people on this board who don't know this stuff, so ... it's probably beneficial. Have fun EDIT: Ok, so I genuinely thought that I had made a fact-based post. Er, I added a few comments that I thought were funny, but I guess that wasn't a great idea. I removed one of my comments myself, but it's true that the moderators were in touch..... And - to bit_by_bit, I am sorry, because some of the things I said were above and beyond "spirited discussion". I absolutely agree that polite conduct is the way forward, and my initial "hang on a minute" reply to him was nice. But, I do have to admit that this subject has wound me up a fair amount. I genuinely believe that he's made a quite serious mistake - but I am happy to be proved wrong. Right now - I just want to get to the bottom of this. More Edit:
I am a miner
I didn't want to add this before, because I'm sure it (incorrectly) gives my argument more weight. But I need you to understand that bitcoin difficulty is a total motherfucker. I pre-ordered a BFL single for 11BTC in May 2013. The difficulty was about 4 million, and I worked out I'd make 30BTC/day at those conditions. It arrived at around 30 million difficulty, and I think now we're 18 billion. I've made about 0.7 BTC mining, and It's on the limit of believability that I'll make 1BTC before I throw it in the bin. I have a suspicion that it will be useful in the future for some altcoin/blockchain like thing. Also, I got free heating (which was the whole reason I discovered bitcoin in the first place!) Horrific loss. I think it makes about $1 more than it costs in electricity to run (at current price......) This whole post is not a "bitter miner" but somebody who has experienced bitcoin's exponential difficulty First Hand. Honestly, it is unbelievable. I genuinely think that the guy that does the profitability calculator deliberately does not explain what the 'profitability decline per year' is ... because he knows it will adversely harm bitcoin and the manufacture of miners. Even More EDIT:
Am I sure I've got the difficulty increase thing right?
So, I've made a spreadsheet thing to see if the 0.0022 difficulty thing is right. It is. All this table tells you is that in order to calculate 15% difficulty increase, you need to use a number LIKE 0.0022 in the 'profitability decline per year' box, and not 0.98 (which bit_by_bit calculated). I've sanity checked my numbers against the 'profitability calculator' and they don't quite line up, but they're close enough. The difficulty is not the same either, but it's in the same region. I don't know why. Also, the months aren't exact fortnights, so they don't line up. These are details. This proves my above workings to my satisfaction.
what is this horrible data?
It shows how much BTC your miner earns each 2 weeks (average difficulty change period). The last 2 rows (calc:) are from the profitability calculator website (and so are right). My attempt is on the left. Fortnight 13 is 6 months. Oh, this graph uses 14.07% difficulty.
BTC earned accumulated
calculator says BTC
2 bold numbers. 1 is approximately the 3.75 coins that gives you $1900 / coin whatever. 2 is the "profitability decline per year" as a tiny number. The pro tool comes up with 0.01095125 and I got 0.02257 but I don't care - it's close enough. My whole point is that these numbers are totally unworkably all over the place. You can't calculate them meaningfully.
I CANNOT BELIEVE the amount of effort that I have had to go to in order to show you that you made a minor mistake. (at time of writing you still deny it). There is no doubt in my mind now that I was right in the first place. Your calculations do not include a significant difficulty increase. I wish you well.
Question - Formula for bitcoin mining profitability that factors increasing difficulty over time
Hi guys, I'm making some basic trackers in Google Sheets for my cloud mining earnings. A profitability calc that factors in cloud mining fees and, ideally - difficulty increases. My question is what is this formula, and what data does it need - to modify Bitcoin produced over the next 12 months assuming that the difficulty steadily increases at a rate comparable to the past 12 months (~478% / ~1.3% daily). What is the formula that allows for a sliding scale over time? Say I was trying to figure out where 7.73TH/s would get me at: D1 W1 M1 M2, 3, 4, 5 etc. Y1 Any help is much appreciated, cheers.
I was using the bitcoin wisdom litecoin calc which takes into account difficulty rises. If you put in a rise of 10% (this is a very conservative estimate!) it takes infinity time to recoupe money spent on a 7990 and that assumes it runs at 375w but in reality it will run 500+w. Then take into account other costs like electricity and fees on exchanges, the price of the coin dropping, it seems like you are betting everything on the resale value of the kit. Now if you think that asics for litecoin arrive in 5 to 6 months then gpu mining has that time as a maximum to recoupe investment. Also there is no point mining assuming a price rise will make it profitbale. It would be better in that case to buy coins with your money and not hardware. Therefore I can't see anyway that makes sense that anyone would bother to mine unless their hardware is paid off and electricity is free.
A technical thougts about ETC from Chinese community
Dr. Alan Xu, from ETC Chinese community, has published his thoughts on ETC's coming hard fork and other issues. Let's have a discusion about them. I reposted it here: The Probability Theory Explanation of Bad Omen One week before the “the DAO” was stolen, I clicked on the “the DAO” contract in Mist, and the Mist corrupted. I looked upon this phenomenon as a “bad omen” of the DAO, and unfortunately I jinxed it. When the “the DAO” was stolen, of course I looked upon it as a bad omen of Ethereum, and I jinxed it again. When Note7 explodes, all the people looks upon it as a bad omen, and Samsung is dying. “Bad omen” is not a superstition, it has strong theoretical support! Please be patient to the following reasoning: Nothing works 100 percent perfect. There’re always exceptions with small possibility. If we take all exceptions into consideration, the diversity of the whole system grows exponentially.: Ncombinations=2Ncomponents Even if one component has only one exception, a system with 100 components (e.g. a mechanical watch ,or a school) will have 2100 =1 million combinations! It’s very obvious that we can’t live with such a diversity. To maintain and improve our civilization, we have to neglect exceptions, i.e. mathematically truncate all the possibilities of exceptions ,rounding the possibility of “normal” to 100% percent. But, the truncated possibilities will not evaporate automatically. They cumulate via the following equation: Ptruncated=1-Pnormal^ Ncomponents or， Ptruncated=1-(1-Pexception)^ Ncomponents If a system is well-designed, the Pnormal is extremely close to 1, or Pexception is extremely close to 0. Let’s say 6 sigma,1 out of a million. Obviously a system with 100 components will have a Ptruncated of 1/10000, the system will be very safe. But a system with 1 million components(e.g. a spaceship) will have a Ptruncated of 0.632, which means “exceptions” overwhelms “normal”! –Now you understand why there’s such a high rate of spaceship explosion. On the other hand, if a system is badly designed, Pexception is not very close to 0. Let’s say 1/1000. (1 exception out of 1000 may be praised by boss as good job) So, a not-so-complicated system with 1000 components will also have a Ptruncated of 0.632 (yes, 1-(1-1/N)N~=0.368) —normal become minority. Then the topic goes to how exceptions show up. Please look at the equation of combinations. The overwhelming possibility of “exceptions” is accumulated from the extremely small possibilities of the 21000 combinations! So, when “exceptions” show up, the possibility must do a “luck draw”, finds a “lucky” combination and push it to the front stage. When we look at the specific case of combination that shows up and calculate it’s possibility, of course that’ll be very small(with our theory, its 1 out of 2N). Then because it’s a small possibility, we tend to explain it as “accident “ or “bad luck” , and forgive the person liable. When the next time “exceptions” show up, it’s obvious that the same combination won’t be “lucky” again—the possibility is way lower than winning a lottery! The “luck” will go to another combination out of the 2N base. And then kind people will also explain that as an “accident”, and they won’t link the latter “bad luck” with the previous one. But now you know the equation of “exceptions”, you will realize that with one “bad luck”, the Ptruncated is already very high, if 2 “bad lucks” come closely , the Ptruncated may already overwhelms Pnormal. So, when a “bad luck” comes, it’s really a “bad omen”, and with high possibility, you will jinx it. Chinese idiom: The fall of one leaf is enough to tell coming of autumn. A Forkless Solution to Ethereum Flood Attack Ethereum experienced flood attack in the past weeks, and as a “tradition”, the dev team decided to hard fork again. The previous hard fork “created” ETC. This time, maybe it will create a “ETHC”, and if ETC follows the hard fork, it will create a “ETCC”. Ncoins=2Nforks Maybe Ethereum should be renamed to “Bacterium”, which keeps dividing and creates colony. If hard fork can solve the problem, anyway it’s worthy to fork. But actually this hard fork is only a temporary solution, and because it introduces compromise to the system, another hard fork in the near future is a must need. And if that hard fork introduces another compromise while solving this compromise, a third hard fork is waiting ahead—oh Bacterium, don’t divide so quickly, give us some time to supply agar. Let’s get back to the essence of the problem—how flood attack defeats the Ethereum system? The main mechanism is to make the block verification time longer than block interval. E.g block interval is 14 seconds, and the time to verify a block is 28 seconds, so that the client can never catch up with the blockchain. Or, the target block interval is 14 seconds, and all the nodes need 28 seconds to verify, this will create a lot of uncle blocks, plus the decreasing of mining difficulty. This is different from the essence of Bitcoin flood attack, which jams the mempool and enlongs the time needed for a tx to be included to a block. For the Bitcoin problem, miners/pools can’t include more txs into block, they can’t judge which tx is evil which is benign. So the solution is the combination of mempool tx override , dynamic fee rate, and larger block size. Back to Ethereum, there IS a way to judge which tx is evil. Because evil txs take the advantage of some ops with unreasonable low gas rate, and these ops are not frequently used in normal txs. The miners/pools can setup another gas rate calculating algorithm, with higher gas rates for these ops, and even can introduce an exponential gas rate model: the first time an op is used, calcs 1 gas, second time, 2 gases, third time, 4 gases, etc. Then, the miners/pools compare the 2 gas results. If they are very close, this means a tx is normal; if gas2 is obviously higher than gas 1, this tx is suspicious of evil; if gas 2 is way higher than gas 1, for sure it’s an evil tx. http://imgur.com/a/fbTLy So, miners can exclude all the evil txs and carefully include suspicious txs to blocks. Also, miners can set the block gas limit according to gas rate 2, to ensure block verification time is shorter than block interval. After the filtering of evil txs and the limitation of block verification time, the attack will be defended. So the user client doesn’t need any change. The shift from old mining/pool client to this new client can be voluntary. We can suppose that miners will choose the pool that protects the network, so that they can get more long-term income. So there’s motive for pools to shift to the new client. And, it doesn’t need all pools and mining power to shift, because the system can bear with a small portion of long-verification-time blocks. From development point of view, this new minepool client needs modification of EVM. But it doesnt affect the logic of smart contract, only a new gas calculation function is added ,so it’s not a difficult job. This solution is neither a hard fork , nor a soft fork, because it allows blocks full of evil txs. This solution is elastic, if later on some more problems come out, the system can also upgrade forkless.
How do you keep the bitcoin wallet on a flash drive when the program is currently over 20 GB in size? Do you need a giant flash drive or...what? And is keeping your wallet out of reach of the internet a sure fire way to keep it from getting hacked, or is there another way to get the info? Secondly, a question about LiteCoin- originally posted to bitcointalk: I recently took an interest in mining but the standard Bitcoin profit calculators told me the sad news: that my PC would produce such a pitiful number of coins (like $20 worth a year, even with some simple gear) that it wasn't worth it (especially when considering electricity costs). But I happened upon a litecoin calculator and put in the same values (20 GHs/s, current difficulty, my computer's wattage, power costs, etc.) and the calc told me I could mine around $500k worth of LiteCoin (after exchanging to BTC then to USD at the current rates). I'm assuming something's very off. Here's the calculator: http://www.coinwarz.com/calculators/litecoin-mining-calculator I'd be getting two Butterfly Labs 10 GH/s USB blocks ($50 each) and run my AMD Radeon 7700 GPU for a little more. I have a 250 watt PC and power's about 0.12 a kW. What's broken here, or can I really get rich on this alt currency?
Blockchain to fix horribly broken e-mail system like it is today?
E-mail as it is, is horribly broken. Horrendously broken. It wasn't that many years ago that you could be assured your e-mail reaches whoever you were mailing to. Today it is a mere suggestion, that perhaps this should be delivered to this person, at least for any automated e-mail. This seems to be creeping to manual, organic email as well. Hell, we are seeing even internal e-mails being flagged by spamassassin as spam, organic, human written conversations! In that instance, the spamassassin is also maintained by one of the largest hosting providers in the world... Hotmail/MS services has been for years (atleast about 4 years now!) been silently dropping email, not all, but some. There's a bit of relief lately, as they have started to favor a bit more marking as spam, rather than silently dropping. I know, most email users don't see this problem, but those who use email a lot to do their work, and those who need to send automated emails (say, welcome e-mails for a service) this is a big problem. (Disclaimer, for us, our niche of hosting probably causes flagging as well. Our site is blocked by many corporate firewalls for example) Blockchain to the rescue? This is an idea i've been toying around with a few years. What if any single e-mail would cost a faction of a cent, and who receives the e-mail, gets paid for it? Now that would solve a lot of problems. I realize there has been some half assed attempts on blockchain based e-mail, but they are about replacing email (never going to happen). Using blockchain to enhance the current experience, with least minimal friction should be the goal, not re-inventing the wheel. Imagine a say 0.01 cent (0.0001 USD) cost per e-mail. This price would not be cost prohibitive even for free e-mail service providers (Ad revenue etc. should exceed this value), never mind any legit e-mail users. Especially considering you get paid for receiving. So all legit e-mail services would work rather well regardless of the cost. (never mind free email service could profit from this) Spam however? To send 1 million emails you would need to pay 100$. How many spammers would continue doing so? At least it makes things much harder, not so easy to use a botnet to send your email when you need to include your private key(s) to the botnet, or make some kind of private key management system, makes more complicated. Small business newsletters? Say you need to send 100k e-mails to legit customers, 10$ is nothing. To human time crafting that newsletter is order (possibly orders) of magnitude greater than that. Price would also fluctuate as per the market. The most difficult thing would probably be setting the self balancing mechanisms to keep per mail cost sensible. As such, the biggest hurdle in this might not be technical at all. Technically, how could this work? Sender sends a TX for e-mail they are sending for recipient. This TX contains message with mail ID, and a segment which can be used with the email contents to unlock the private key for the payment. This way it is verified that recipient mail servers receives and reads the email. Once the recipient server has calculated the private key, they can either TX the received sum to their wallet, or this needs to be formatted so that once the sender has sent it, they cannot recover the private key and double spend (technical hurdle A. For someone who knows their stuff unlikely to be an major hurdle) Step by step repeat: * Sender checks if recipient has "MailCoin" capability * Sender sends TX to recipient * Sender sends the email to recipient * Recipient notices on mail header (say x-mailcoin-tx: TXID_HERE) that this is a "mailcoin" mail * Recipient checks TX if it has been received * Recipient puts the mail on delivery queue, antispam is instructed of heavy negative score (MTA admin configurable) * Recipient claims the value of the TX (this is the hurdle A). Recipient can only claim the TX value in case they have received the full e-mail. (Question, can this step be pushed even further down the delivery chain, but still remain MTA only level without mail client support?). Most likely solution is that the header contains the encrypted private key, and chain TX contains the key to decrypt that private key to claim the coins, or vice-versa? Once recipient has the email & payment, they simply mark on their Antispam a automatic lower score and deliver it normally. E-mail server side we have several components:
Recipient server needs component to check for TXs
Sender server needs component to send a TX, and check if the recipient has the capability
Recipient server OR dns zone has indicator the recipient can utilize "MailCoins" (DNS IN TXT field most likely, ie. mailcoin.domain.com. IN TXT publicaddress)
Most typical scenario would be the Recipient server works as outgoing as well, with single wallet. So depending on your mail volume, do you send or receive more on that wallet you might never need to worry about the coins (except for value going skyhigh and having like 10k $ worth of "MailCoins"). So perhaps additional components on per use case are needed, or more likely rudimentary scripting capability (ie. "MailCoin" daemon api) to keep the balances in check. Technical hurdle B: This needs to be super super simple to setup. Or sufficient financial incentive. One would need to develop standard components & configs for exim, postfix, and other MTAs. Infact, make it autogenerate wallet ID etc. and easy to replace or import private keys etc. to put in coins for sending if you need to. Privacy: On the blockchain you would not see the e-mail contents, only that e-mail likely took place (TX with mail UUID) to recipient. If sender can be deciphered it depends on them if it can be traced who they were. Automatic mixers? :) Recipient can also keep cycling the receive addresses to keep things private if they want to. The biggest problem i see here, is that if an attacker can deduce the sender and/or recipient, it might to lead to some issues out of the scope of technical solutions. If attacker could read the emails, they would already have accomplished MitM and could just grab all e-mails. Default implementation should be so, that from recipient address outsider cannot deduce the recipient server nor hostname. Also, if attacker gains access to your mail with full headers, they could see the TXs in blockchain. MTA might need to scrub mailcoin related headers (yuck, scrubbing headers ....) for paranoid users, but most likely solution is that recipient retransmits those mailcoins as soon as they got the private key for the balance. Blockchain: Blocks needs to be done every 10seconds or so, it needs to be fast. Preferrably even every 5 seconds, as not to cause any undue delay. Then again, if your application is reliant on receiving email within seconds, one should consider another means for communicating. Imho, email should be considered a little bit like snail mail, but on internet pace: Couple minutes delay is just OK. Block size given the e-mail volume needs to be fairly large as well, considering the time between blocks. This is technical hurdle C: Hosting the full blockchain. I can easily foresee that this would grow to be terabytes in size. However, any large email operator would have vested interest in ensuring smooth operation of the blockchain, and for them, running a full node would have neglible cost. (Technical hurdle C) Single email sent using the system could easily have TX contents of 100 bytes + TX headers + block headers etc. Say 100 bytes, and 100 million emails per day: 9.31GiB per day, 3 399GiB per year, 5 years later: 16.60 TiB just for the mail TXs. Some estimate there is 200+ billion emails per day, but we all know large portion of this is spam. But even at 50 billion emails a day, 100 bytes per mail TX would add to 4.55TiB per day! So optimizing the blockchain size is obviously going to be important. The volume will be obviously much smaller as semi-spam (those daily half opt-in spamvertising from companies you know) will be lower as well. So probs 100+ billion emails per day at 100% adoption. Blockchain should then be compressed, the whole block. Algorithm probably should favor speed over compression rate, and should be task specifically optimized (needs a simple reference release, where you can just stream the block contents into it and get output as compressed or uncompressed). The more compression there is, the more full nodes will be hosted by smaller operators :) For large e-mail server clusters there should be central store for the blockchain, but this can be accessed on the system administratoconfig level already. The MTA components will just remotely talk to single full node daemon (so not really different from many implementations in existence right now), instead of each one running locally a full node. At today's cheapest hosting rates 16.60TiB is roughly around 85-100€ a month. Purchase cost per 8TB drive is around 230€ mark right now, externals are cheaper. Not an issue for any even semi serious mail provider. Not even issue for datahoarder individuals. However at 100 billion mails per day: 9.09TiB per day added, which is prohibitively large! We should be targeting something like 20bytes per mail final storage spent, or even less. If it looks like it is going to grow really large, full node needs to have configurable multiple storages, so they can store parts of the blockchain on multiple different devices (ie. individual might choose to have it on 4 different external drives). Filesystem side optimizations are needed as well, but these are fairly simple, just split into multiple subdirectories by the 10 thousand blocks or so, ie. 1 for blocks 1-10k, 2 for blocks 10 001 to 20k etc. Filesystems get exponentially slower the more files there is per directory. 10k might start to show slowing down, but is not significant yet. Nodes could also implement secondary compression (compress multiple blocks together), if the blockchain starts to become stupid large. If it starts to become impossible to maintain, we could possibly implement a scrubbing methodology, where very old blocks get the TX contents wiped as they are not necessary anymore. Should not be an issue Blocks with 10second target generated per annum: 3 153 600 Mails per 10second: 115 740 e-mails per 10second block. Final compressed size (say 20 bytes per mail): 2.20MiB + headers etc. per block Let's start small and allow linear growth to this, say 0.1% per day (36.5% annual) and start from 20k / 512KiB. After 3 years: 41.9k / 1072.64KiB per block, After 10 years: 93k / 2380.8KiB. (2027 we should have HDDs in the size of 30TB and daily max size for chain growth is 19.61TiB) On the positive side every problem is an opportunity in disguise. If the blockchain is large, once again botnets will have a hard hard time to spamming, they can't host the full blockchain on infected machines. They will need to develop centralized mechanisms on this regard as well. One method i can see is by having TOR client built in, and via .onion domain to anonymize, but this is two way street, security researchers could exploit this (see above about the private keys) as well. Even without botnets, spammers will need to dedicate significant resources to host the full blockchain. On the flip side, if spammer has also mining operation on the same local area network, they have both the income for mailcoins + full blockchain, and could leverage economies of scale, but this too would increase cost. And after all: This is all about increasing cost for spamming, while having the price in vicinity where real e-mail users, real businesses it is not a significant impact, or may even be an income source Client side Zero, Nada changes. No changes to outlook, thunderbird etc. Everything works under the hood at the MTA level. Very easy adoption for the end user. Everything is in the backend, server side. Economics for users Cost of operation has above been shown to increase wildly for spammers. But how about normal use cases? Joe Average: They receive e-mail a lot more than they send, all kinds of order confirmations, invoices, newsletters and other automated e-mail. They will actually earn (however tiny amounts) from using this system. So for the masses, this is a good thing, they will see the earning potentials! which brings us to .... New business opportunities! I could foresee a business setting up spam traps, the more e-mail you receive the more you earn! So it pays to get your receiver into spam lists. You don't ever need to read these, just confirm receive of them. All of sudden we could see even greater numbers of invalid e-mail addresses in spam lists, making spamming ever more expensive! Free email services might proof to be extremely profitable, to the point of potential revenue sharing with Joe Averages (and above spamtraps). Because free email is mostly joe averages, they will have greater influx than outgoing. On the caveat, free email needs to have limits, but due to the low cost and potential of earnings, they could implement "mail credits" system, base is like 20 emails a day, but each received email could increase this credit limit. As such, it makes actually sense for free email services to implement this at the very least on the receiving side. Business mass emailings. A business which has 100k valid e-mails on their database will not have a problem with paying few dozen bucks to have their mass mailing delivered. BUT they will make extra sure the content is good and targeted, something the recipient wants to receive. These will be the biggest spenders on email, apart from spammers. ISPs, hell they get paid to provide e-mail. And they are on the same spot as free email service providers, they stand to earn more than spend! Blockchain economics This is where things might get interesting, there is so much potential. However, there are several things definitively should not be done:
Initial Coin Offerings
Non-consensus chain (ie. whatever devs say, goes!), always has to be consensus
Infinite & preferential supply
1 & 2 are easy, just do not mine outside of testnet prior to launch. (If devs get paid by companies, there is conflict of interest as well, but let's not get into that right now) 3: Miners and/or full node maintainers decide what goes on. Probably miners like bitcoin is supposed to. 4: Infinite & preferential supply: No after the launch "contracts" etc. to give coins to preferential parties, it should remain as on the launch unless majority consensus says there will be a change. Proof of stake is gray area imho, but then again also proof of work is the rich gets richer. Mining: Storage requirement is a blessing in disguise, the massive storages required for this to function means that there will be no central hardware developer who sells all the shovels, without significant other markets. Ie. WD, Seagate, Toshiba the main players. This means algo needs to be based on the full blockchain being hosted. The hashing needs to be so that GPUs are the king most likely, since almost anything good for CPUs is also doable in GPUs. Eventually someone will likely come with ASIC alternative, but due to masses of data it WILL require high bandwidth, high memory. Nothing like bitcoin currently, where low bandwidth, no memory requirement for the ASIC. There needs to be some expensive commodity components in there (RAM, Storage), and as such GPUs are the most likely candidate, and the bottleneck will not likely be computation, but I/O bandwidth. Quickly thinking, previous block could include number of blocks to be included on the next for verification, in a highly compressible format. Let's say difficulty is number of blocks to be hashed, or from difficulty you can calculate number of blocks to be included. Previous blocks miner just chooses on random blocks to be included on the next one. Listing 10 series of blocks to be included, which can include series instructions. It could request block #5729375+100, or #357492+500 stepping 5 (every 5th block). Hell the random generator could use last block as seed for the next one to make it deterministic YET random as the emails and TXs change. (WTF, Did i just solve how the algo needs to work?!?) Only blocks which would differentiate is the first few, and obviously Genesis, for which an "empty" block would be what is to be hashed. Hashing algo could be SHA256 because of the high requirement of streaming data, and most ASIC miners lacking in bandwidth (infact, it could be made compatible with bitcoin, but only those ASICS with higher I/O bandwidth than storage/ram I/O bandwidth is could actually boost the perf) Different hashable list operations could be (on the block list what to be hashed on the next one): * Single block * Block # + number of blocks * Block # + (number of blocks with stepping) * Block # + number of blocks chosen by random using each hashed block as the seed for choosing next one (makes prefetch, preread, caching not work efficiently) * Number of previous blocks mined (ie. 50 last blocks) * Above but with stepping operator * Above but with choose random next X blocks, with variations based on the last hashed, sum of the hashed * All random pickers would have operation modes for the seed to be used: From hashed sum, the whole block, block contents, block header These modes would ensure the blocks are there and makes it a lot dependable on variable factors, RAM speed, I/O seek time, I/O bandwidth. This way we have proof that the miner has access to those blocks in efficient manner and the full blockchain is stored there, even if it is not practically retrievable from him / her over the internet for others to obtain a copy. HOWEVER, due to the data volumes, i think it is given they have fast access, but a miner would probably prefer not to share their blockchain contents to have bandwidth free for their mining, as the deadlines are tight. It could be built into the full node spec that they do not accept new blocks from sources which are not ready to supply any given block, and perhaps even periodic test of this. However, this would be unenforceable if people start running custom coded nodes which disables this, as it is not part of the blockchain calculation. It is not miner's benefit to "waste" precious bandwidth to serve others the vast blockchain, meanwhile it is end users benefit those running full nodes without mining to get them fast. So an equilibrium might be reached, if miners start loosing out because other miners will not share their blocks, they will start offering them, even if prioritized. At 2MiB blocks, 10 second deadline, a miner would preferentially want the new block within 500ms, which would be barely sufficient time for a round trip across the globe. 500ms for 2MiB is 4MiB/s transfer rate inbound, and when block found you want it out even faster, say 250ms you'll need 8MiB/s burst which very very few have at a home. At more usual 1MiB/s it would take 2secs to submit your new block. On the other hand, if you found the block, you'd have immediate access to begin calcing the next one. Block verification needs to be fast, and as such the above difficulty setting alone is not sufficient, there needs to be nonce. Just picking the right block is not guarantee there will be match, so traditional !???? nonce needs to be set as well most likely. As such, a lot of maths needs to be done to ensure this algorithm does not have dead ends, yet ensures certain blocks needs to be read as full and stored fully by the miners, just plain hashes of the blocks is not sufficient. Perhaps it should be block data + nonce, then all the blocks hashes (with nonce, or pre-chosen salt) and to be generated block combined hash with nonce needs to have certain number of zeroes. Needs testing and maths :) So there are many ways to accomplish proof of storage, we'd need just to figure out the which is the best. Sidenote, this same algo could potentially be used with different settings for immutable, forever storage of data. Since there is no continuing cost to store data, TX Fee for every message (data) byte should be very high in such a coin. Supply. Needs to be predictable and easy to understand. It would be preferential the standard mailing out is always 1x MailCoin, albeit coin itself should be practically infinitively divisable, and as such supply needs to be in the trillions eventually. But these things get complicated really fast, so we need to set a schedule. Current email use is very large, so we should have something in the same magnitude. 8640 blocks per day - so maybe 10 000 coins per block == 86 400 000 new coins per day == 31 536 000 000 new coins per year, halving every 2 years. First halving: 63 072 000 000, Second halving: 94 608 000 000, Third (6 years): 110 376 000 000, but only halving 4 or 5 times to keep some new supply for ever increasing adoption and lost coins. Got all the way here? :D Thanks for reading up. Let me know what you think, and let's start a discussion on the feasibility of such a system! I cannot develop this myself, but i would definitively back an effort up in the ways i can if anyone attempts to do something like this :) And i know i got probably many of the details incorrect The main point of the methods described above is ease of adoption. Without adoption any system is worthless, and with email, you just cannot replace it like that (see the attempts trying to replace IPv4 with IPv6 ...), but you can enhance it. adoption is very critical in communications systems. (No one would have a phone if no one else had a phone) Addendum 1: Forgot to add about pricing and markets, read comment here Addendun 2:Bad actors and voting
With regards to mining, Am I understanding this correctly?
When I put into http://www.coinish.com/calc/# the different pieces in expert mode, it says that with a daily difficulty increase of ~2.769% I would stand to lose pretty much in every scenario that I find at the current hardware rates, unless bitcoin is at least $1100 each. Am I correct in thinking that anyone who actually does mining currently, and ongoing, is hedging their bets that the coins they mine with that hardware will be worth a crap load more in the future??? I guess I'm trying to better understand why anyone would mine right now until hardware caught up and was much cheaper, and not just buy the coin outright? Also, with the drastic increase in difficulty, wouldn't it make sense that anyone with the capabilities to produce more advanced hardware themselves will do that, as why produce it for others when you can keep it and mine the coins at a faster rate yourself?
So over the last week or so I've become more and more interested in starting up mining again (last done this years and years ago, bitcoin mining ofc) but I have to be honest I have forgotten pretty much everything. The technology has also moved on from back then when and I'm currently looking at getting a little rig together for about £800. 2x Sapphire Radeon HD 7950 3GB I've been looking at https://github.com/litecoin-project/litecoin/wiki/Mining-hardware-comparison to see what the average kH/s is and then calculating the gross profit on http://www.litecoinpool.org/calc?hashrate=1100&difficulty=153.16808633 Now I know that the difficulty won't stay at this rate for very long but from what I can see you can make the money back within a month? Surely I must be missing something here.
[modpost] Possible wiki page, something I call "All about miners," covering things from basic terminology to miner config files and overclocking.
What is a miner? A miner is a computer set up to solve cryptographic hashes in the litecoin network. Once a clump of these hashes, or a block, is mined, litecoins pop out! It's like opening a box of chocolates, except you know what you're gonna get :) Miners also handle transaction confirmations, making sure no single coin is double-spent. Setting up your computer to be a miner What kind of computer do I need? Optimally, you'd have a good power supply and a couple decent Radeon/ATI/AMD graphics cards. Because of litecoin's hash algorithm, the gap between mining with graphics cards and processors is less than with most other cryptocurrencies, meaning that mining with some desktop processors may be worth it after electricity costs. Note that mining with laptops is not recommended because of the heat generated by mining, and mining with NVIDIA graphics cards may not be worth the cost. How do I know if litecoin mining will be profitable for me? First, check how fast you'll be mining with your hardware, how many litecoins you'll mine in a day, and how much litecoins are worth. Now, multiply the number of litecoins per day by their worth. Then, find out the power draw of your hardware, and calculate energy cost. Then finish by subtract energy cost from your daily earnings. If your number is positive, you're making that much money per day. If negative, you're losing money. Keep in mind that the worth of litecoins goes up/down, and you have to earn the cost of your hardware before you churn a profit. Mining difficulty also goes up/down, depending on how many people are mining how fast in relation to how many litecoins are supposed to be generated how fast. See the economics(coming soon) post for more info. Okay, I did all that. How do I start? All you have to do is download a program and change some settings (later in the guide), and you're ready to go. If you're comfortable with configurations and the command line, Reaper and cgminer are your best friends. Otherwise, GUIMiner-scrypt is right for you. If you want to mine on your processor, download the "batteries included" miner via this link and setup should be relatively self-explanatory. Do I mine alone? Due to the difficulty of mining, we recommend that you mine with a pool where multiple people mine together. Visit your pool's about or help page for proper miner settings, which we're about to get to in-depth! Under the hood Configuring your miner (aka the hard part) Before we get started, you should become familiar with these terms:
host: Your pools website
port: The internet port your computer uses to connect to your pool
worker: Anything that mines is a worker. Just a way for you and your pool to keep track of what's mining how.
user: In mining programs, the user is the name of your worker, which by default tends to be poolusername.1 or poolusername_1, _2, etc.
pass: Password for your worker, NOT your pool password. This can usually be anything.
None of those will have any affect on how fast you mine. The settings that we'll be focusing on are:
worksize: Exactly what it sounds like
thread-concurrency: Setting that involves computations happening simultaneously
vectors: Involves how memory is used
aggression/intensity: How aggressively your computer mines
threads_per_gpu: How many threads of data to process on a GPU, like threads of a CPU. Anything beyond 1 usually doesn't increase hashrate on modern cards.
device: First GPU is device 0, second is device 1, etc.
If you're using GUIMiner-scrypt, there are default settings for different cards (lower right dropdown). I'm mining on a 7870. Here is what it looks like for me. You can follow along with the rest of this guide to optimize your settings. GUIMiner-scrypt is just a GUI to cgminer and reaper anyways. If you are using a command-line miner, like reaper and cgminer, I recommend you download and isntall Notepad++ or SublimeText if on Linux. Reaper is currently considered to be the best tool for mining. After you unzip your downloaded file, in the folder you'll find reaper.conf. It should look something like this:
As you see, my thread concurrency is slightly different from the default of GUIMiner-scrypt. I found that this concurrency gives me the best hashrate! NOTE: I do not use cgminer to mine litecoin. If you plan on using cgminer, which offers more hardware-controlling settings, in the cgminer folder you will want to create a text file. Then, open that text file w/ Notepad++ or SublimeText, then Save As > cgminer.con > file type > all. This will save the file with the proper name and as the proper type. Note that cgminer does not support high concurrencies. For me, cgminer.conf would look something like:
You saw some settings similar to what we saw in Reaper's litecoin.conf. The other settings have to do with my card's clocks, voltage, and fan. This is covered in the overclocking section right below! Overclocking (aka the risky part) Okay, first off I'm not responsible if you cause damage to your parts. Please research safe overclock settings for your card. Second, don't be afraid. Modern hardware has many safety features in place that help prevent mayhem like me...lol jk this isn't a car insurance add. For your better understanding, become familiar with these terms:
Voltage/vddc: Amount of electrical current supplied to your card
Power Limit: Determines at what temperature your card throttles itself
Core Clock: Speed of your memory's core, similar to CPU core clocks
Memory Clock: Speed of GPU's GRAM, similar to RAM speed
Fan speed (%): Determines the RPM of your fan once your card reaches certain temperatures.
No one setting controls how effectively you mine; what matters most when it comes to clocks is the ratio between your core/memory clocks. Generally, a ratio of 0.7 or below is best. You will need to experiment. If you're using cgminer, you can control card settings from the conf file. However, if you aren't, I recommend using MSI Afterburner as your overclocking tool. You will need to unlock some settings. Using my cgminer settings, MSI Afterburner looks like this. I have found these settings to be the most stable while bringing me a high hashrate. Other people's optimum settings You can check the sidebar for the hardware comparison chart, but it is rarely updated and has huge sways in results. It is a good starting place. The mods of this subreddit will be putting together an updated, more accurate list in the near future. END I hope all things go smoothly for you and that you've learned a lot! Please consider donating LTC to My wallet: LiD41gjLjT5JL2hfVz8X4SRm27T3wQqzjk The writer of the [Consolidated Litecoin Mining Guide] which helped get me started The writer of the [Absolute Beginner's Litecoin Mining Guide] which also helped me get started
I personally stick to buy and hold but was asked by a family-member if this offer was worth it: Hosted 2TH/s at $2k per year. Available to customer upon payment. Prepaid for the year, I am certain. Other options were, if i recall, something like 1MH/s for $15/month. I had initially told him to look into altcoin mining, if he just had to mine something. Then he came back with this "proposal" from some business he had connections with. (that he even had btc relevant connections surprised me but then again, the bitcoin subs are filled with ppl from every walk of life.) I simply don't know enough to make judgement calls on profit-calcs. However, what he showed me, seemed to indicate that he could make a profit even while difficulty was exponentially increasing at 100% per month. He was all excited about it, ready to sign a check. I managed to get him to hold off on doing anything until his lawyer was able to review the contract. Obviously his lawyer is no bitcoin guru either, so I am looking to anyone that could, with the limited info available, say: RUN AWAY or KEEP LISTENING. Or, if you can, tell me if this can actually produce a ROI or if it is another attempt to make easy money of the noobs. $2k is not going to make him homeless by any means but I just don't know if this is something I should encourage or not. thanks
I was interested in bitcoin ~three years ago, but i didn't have the hardware at the time to mine, so i passed on it. I looked into bitcoin mining (currently doing ~ 640 KH with wemineltc) and i was wondering, are the numbers i filled in here actually accurate? cause if so, holy shit.
Bitcoin SV mining calculator for SHA-256: Price 159.25$, 272.3419G difficulty, 2.0739 EH/s network hashrate, 6.2524 BSV block reward. Bitcoin SV mining pools list and list of best mining software. Professional miners track the Bitcoin Gold network difficulty all the time and in certain moments join the mining using their own mining rigs or Nicehash rented hashpower. Mining success doesn’t only depend on pool servers operation and luck value. Accurate calculation could always be a key. Calculate Bitcoin (BTC) mining profitability in realtime based on hashrate, power consumption and electricity cost. BTC exchange rates, mining pools. BTC exchange rates, mining pools. $12,976.61 $62.75 $412.92 $126.63 $5.37 $72.44 $55.67 Follow @WhatToMine dark mode Also remember that this is only estimation. Results may differ because of many factors: network hashrate, calculation of the average mining difficulty, pool luck, orphan block, coin value change, individual cards performance etc. The Bitcoin difficulty chart provides the current Bitcoin difficulty (BTC diff) target as well as a historical data graph visualizing Bitcoin mining difficulty chart values with BTC difficulty adjustments (both increases and decreases) defaulted to today with timeline options of 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, 3 years, and all time
A non-geeky explanation of what bitcoin mining difficulty is. This also shows how to keep your bitcoin take from diminishing over time. BITCOIN MINING DIFFICULTY EXPLAINED IN 10 MINUTES! GenicsTheCrypto. Loading... Unsubscribe from GenicsTheCrypto? Cancel Unsubscribe. Working... Subscribe Subscribed Unsubscribe 5.02K. Loading ... mining calculator monero The Computationally-Difficult Problem Mining a block is difficult because the SHA-256 hash of a block's header must be lower than or... Mining Bitcoin or Ethereum is a hard task for your computer. But why? And what does the difficulty have to do with the security of blockchains? Learn all abo... Bitcoin Mining Difficulty. What is it? We all have heard about it. But, do we actually know what it is and how it works? We take a look at the history of Bit...